Tuesday, January 29, 2008

Hooking up

I recently had several conversations that made me feel really, really old. But also thankful for my age.

I was at this dinner last weekend, seated across from and around a bunch of college students - interns in my boyfriend's office. I have to say, I really enjoyed them. I'm never around anyone that age, but I had a great time talking to them.

One of them asked how long we'd been together. And so we got on the topic of dating, and here's what they said. They don't date.

What?

They don't date. People their age don't date.

I was all, "What? What do you mean no dating?"

They hook up, they said.

One lovely blonde said that you'll be out dancing, and then a guy will come up behind you and grind, and then turn you around to kiss you. Which then could lead to a hook up. Which could lead to another one, and another. And maybe one day you'll be dating.

I know I was just sitting there with a bewildered look on my face.

"What do you mean, just grind against you and try to kiss you? Just some random guy?"

They laughed. I felt very maternal.

I said, "No drinks? No asking you out for dinner?"

No.

This beautiful woman said, "You just, well, you hook up with someone enough times and then he's your boyfriend. That's how things started with my boyfriend."

She looked at her guy friend, who she'd brought as a friend date to the dinner. He nodded to corroborate her story.

I said I thought this would be very hard on my psyche, that it would make me insecure.

These women said that it did, it absolutely did.

This made me want to hug them. No dating? Drinks are fun! Dinner is fun! Dating is fun! (Except when it's really not.) How would you get to know someone before getting too invested, which for me would be what happened in the hook up scenario? Truly, I wouldn't trade the dating business.

And then the guy, the friend date, said he didn't quite like it either. Because you never really knew what was what or where things stood.

He said something like, "And if you're not actually going on dates, anything can be a date."

They agreed. Going to the library might be a (not dating) date. Going to a museum might be a date. Hell, walking down the street could be a date. Really, what it came down to was leaving the house - if you did something together outside the house, that could be considered a date.

There are lots of times when I feel like being in college or very early 20s right now would be amazing. But I would hate this aspect of life. I'm so glad that's recent - and not how it's been since I started dating.

What I didn't ask, because it wouldn't be appropriate, is what does this mean? Does kissing count? Does it mean they're regularly sleeping with random people?

I think about how hard it is to figure out if someone likes me. And how thinky I get about it if I don't know - and that's after sitting down and having a drink or dinner and talking. Without any nakeditity. If I were to just randomly hook up with guys and then wonder? I would be 83 kinds of fretty, all the time.

I just think about all the dates I've had over, hell, even just the last two years. All that hooking up would take so much more effort than a glass of wine or dinner. On the other hand, though, I assume it would mean you wouldn't have some of the exhausting, 4-date a week cycles that I've gone through.

But I wonder, is this an accurate portrayal by college age people? Does it extend past college? If it's been the norm for a while, then people past college must be in this mode as well. But I read blogs of 20-somethings, and they go on dates. So then, maybe it's more a DC thing? Or doesn't extend past college? Can it be something you grow out of?

I just don't get it. See how this makes me feel very, very old?

22 comments:

  1. I'm 33, and I can count on my right hand how many men I went on "dates" with while in my 20s.
    I slept with my friends friends- and maybe that led to something- so not quite the grinding and hooking up thing. Also, this was the ninety's in the northwest, so there was a fair amount of flannel and Doc Martins involved- I.E. Not living the corprate/scheduled life.
    Questions- Did they know the people they were hooking up with before the hookup? Were they friends? Was there any basis for liking? I'm confused.

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  2. I'm sorry to say I don't know! I assume so, but who knows? I didn't ask in-depth questions, as I was meeting some for the first time, others for the second time, and it was someone else's work social setting, so I didn't want to be inappropriate. But I do wonder! If I'm ever in a situation where I can ask, I have 8 zillion things I'm curious about!

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  3. Man, I hope it's not still like this when my kids are in college.

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  4. Oh it is DEFINITELY like this. This post was my college experience in a nutshell, but strangely, I liked it because (after getting out of a long distance relationship sophomore year) all I wanted was some mindless fun. I was even guilty of giving guys the wrong number, or putting their number in my phone as "no" so that when they DID call to ask me on a date or something, I wouldn't have to deal with it. Is this an "I was slutty in college" comment? Maybe.

    Post college it's not just the hooking up though, it's a combination of hooking up and real dating, completely depending on the situation. Okay, I'm stopping. But yes, I could talk endlessly about this and give you all the answers you could ever want.

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  5. I second everything nicoleantoinette just posted. I'm 25, and my (insert name of fairly large Virginia public college) experience was pretty similar. The only difference is I typically run away from random guys that try to grind up on me. Buy me a drink first? Then we'll see.

    The tagline of my school was "roll over and introduce yourself". Eek, right? But yeah, it does extend into the post-college world. It took me about 6 months to figure out how to start dating in D.C., but I think I've got the dinner, drinks, fun outdoorsy dates thing down now. I'd say my life is still somewhat of a combination of the two, though a little more G-rated.

    And I've already said too much in public now! I'd venture to say I'm your typical mid-20's D.C. single, so fire away if you need to know more.

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  6. I'm 20 something -barely- but this wasn't my experience down here in Texas.

    I just wanted to say "nakeditity" made me giggle.

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  7. Sounds awful. Like a great big gift-wrapped miserable dose of crazy.

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  8. I am in my last year of my undergraduate degree and I can attest to this situation. In the past 4 years, I have only been on 1 "date." I have 'hooked-up' with people in the past, but I always managed to work it out so that either I was traveling or they were just visiting so that there was no expectation of seeing them again. In my mind, this allowed me to avoid the awkwardness of the question "and this means we are....?" (Note: when I say hooking up, I don't mean sex. This may make me somewhat of a prude, but it never felt like the right thing to do).

    I have no problems answering any more questions about the college "dating" situation. I just might not be able to answer all/most/any of them.

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  9. Amisare - I am pretty sure that if I ever have kids, this is probably what high school will be like by then.

    HKW - Interesting. I wonder if it's where you went to school, or if you're just a couple years ahead of the trend?

    TMM - It would make me miserable and crazy, for sure.

    So, Nicole, Tamale, Christine - I went to college a long time ago, and in conservative NC. You never wanted to be doing the "walk of shame" home in the morning. You were out talking to/maybe kissing boys because you wanted a boyfriend - not because you were out to hook up for fun.

    So here's what I'm wondering - do you think there's gender equality in this? Are women more stigmatized than men for hooking up a lot? For one night stands or sleeping with someone quickly? Or is there no longer a "too quickly" for sex? Do you think the numbers are pretty even for men and women just out to have fun and not get attached? Do you think some of this is a recognition that 20s are so young and you have plenty of time, so people aren't feeling in a hurry to find a spouse?

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  10. Okay, now I sound like a total fogey, but we did this way back in the late 80s, but we called them one night stands. There was an initial hook-up, sometimes those were followed by other encounters, sometimes not.

    I married a one night stand. We went from one night stand to moving in a month later, to engaged two months later and married seven months later (no, I wasn't pregnant). It's shaky now, but it's lasted twenty years.

    I guess it what's old is new again.

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  11. Oh, honey, you look like you're in college, so you shouldn't ever "feel very, very old," LOL!

    Seriously, though I never did, I remember girls on my floor in undergrad doing the hook up thing, and that was in the mid 90's. Maybe it's something you grow out of with age and wisdom. I would miss dating too - well, that is, I'd miss it when I'm divorced and can legally date again. ;)

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  12. *enters stage left, jumps on soapbox at center stage.*

    I feel that I have to chime in here. I am about to turn 25, I'm in graduate school now and I can tell you without any uncertainty that what your friends were telling you is more often the norm than not. I'm in Pittsburgh and can tell you that me and my female friends (all of whom, myself included according to them, are gorgeous and brilliant and worthy of proper dating) all experience this.

    And as someone going through this exact situation right now, I can tell you that it does make me bat-shit crazy. In my situation, things started out with a proper date, and the guy is a genuine "nice guy" BUT he still lobbed out that "come home with me" offer after dinner on our first date. Why? Just because he figures "Why not? Maybe she'll say yes?"

    And I actually stopped and thought to myself... "Well... he did take me out on a proper date and buy me dinner... maybe we should just have sex now." Not to sound like a prude, because I'm not, but thank god I didn't say yes. Why would I ever think that I owe a guy sex just because he *gasp* took me out on a proper date? Not that I didn't want to. I did. Alot. But I think there is some fun in waiting a bit.

    This situation shows how starved I am for someone to actually court me a little bit. We've been on several other dates since then and now I think we've crossed over from "dating" to "dating and hooking up" which I'm sure will soon cross over into just "sleeping together" because that's the way people in my age group operate. At which point it'll either turn into just sex (most likely) or a relationship (not probable given my track record.)

    There's a reason why women my age are screwed up. It's because we don't know how to date. We just know how to "hook up" and "hang out" and "not take things to seriously" because GOD FORBID either one of you admit to *gasp* liking each other or wanting a relationship. I have a degree in Feminist Theory and I cannot imagine what my professors would think if we had discussed all of this in class. Ugh.

    *gets down from soapbox*

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  13. amen, Peace Turkey!

    I just turned 30 and it's the same way in Vermont. I also just realized that if I want to date instead of just hooking up (which I do) all I have to do is force the issue. i.e. not hook up and propose date type meet ups or activities.

    I just had this realization a month ago so I'll have to let you know how it goes.

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  14. 25, in Quebec Canada, and yup, it is exactly like that, 100%.

    Personally, I like it that way because you have the time to figure out if it is "I really care for this person and would like to build something with them", or if it is "this is new and exciting and fun" and then a month later the newness wears off and it all goes to crap.

    If it is something to build on, then it kinda happens naturally. If not then you both go on your merry way without a lot of mess because there was no big investment. Sure it is still dissappointing, but not a gut wrenching breakup.

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  15. DCup - Wow - that was fast, and the fact that you got married, have lasted 20 years, and three great kids is VERY impressive.

    Almost - Ah, thanks! :) And I CANNOT WAIT for your divorce to come through and you can legally join the rest of the dating world. Naked backflips!

    Peace Turkey - Wow. Thanks for sharing your experience. That would really be hard for me. As it is, I tend to wait for quite a while to get into anything physical, mainly because that's the point at which I know I will get emotionally very invested - and I hate being vulnerable. It makes sense but hadn't occurred to me that there would be this expectation that you never be able to take things too seriously - that would make me pure crazy.

    Allison - That makes a lot of sense. I believe it will go well. I mean, if someone wants to spend time with you, and it has to be a date rather than a hook up, well, then it'll be a date.

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  16. Kenya - Interesting to hear that it's the same in Canada, or Quebec, in any case. And take on it sounds very reasonable.

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  17. You know what I don't understand? If neither of them two liked doing things that way, why did they still choose to? Is peer pressure still that bad in college where they're at?

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  18. Amisare - I can't speak for anyone else, but if that were the norm in my peer group, it's what I'd be doing as well (and wondering why I was fretting so much).

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  19. Hello Lemon Gloria:

    I come to your blog via a link provided by my dear friend, Diane Tomlinson. I am happy to note that another dear friend, D-CUP, is a regular.

    At the risk of becoming a sexist straw man, I think I owe the discussion the 46-year old divorced man's dating perspective. Although I had become quite proficient at it -- to the point that a business partner called me jokingly -- MATCH.COM'S 2006 MAN OF THE YEAR --I despised dating in big-city USA. I have no idea what it's like outside of the NY metro area.

    I only became proficient at it because I hated the first date vibe so much. You can practically read your date's cost/benefit analysis in her eyes as she saks you questions meant to ferret out your net worth and your desire to marry anew. Should you admit to any failings such as an enjoyment of drugs, you can watch any possibility of a 2nd date, let alone sex, go up in a puff of crack smoke.

    I don't like hanging around Starbuckses because I don't drink coffee and I don't think they're particularly commodious. So, I never did the "coffee" first date. I scheduled a normal dinner, but always at a restaurant close to a card room, so I wouldn't have far to go to play if the date was no good.

    I came to understand that there was such a thing as "looking good on paper." And should there be some spark of life, some sense of compadre, in the first date, the 3rd date rule for "hooking-up" is imposed. One woman told me that I was free to do "whatever I liked 'to' her on the 3rd date but I must wait for that." Why? Just because. I passed. Thank you very much. I was EXTREMELY envious of the ease with which my gay friends went about their runnings.

    I was and am financially comfortable, have a graduate degree and a child and have been married twice. This makes me look "good on paper." It's not for me to say, but I don't think my appearance is terrible (you may verify this on D-CUP's site). The problem is that I'm mad as a hatter and pretty much present myself as I am both in the online profile and on the first dates. Or if not via online than in the phone calls arranging the first dates.

    I no longer live in the USA. I live in a country that has no dating etiquette per se. People have sex. Plain and simple. Maybe it leads to something (I've been "seeing" one woman now pretty much daily for the last month); maybe it doesn't but the vibe is closer to what the students in the post describe although other issues of money and power and reputation do enter in sometimes, to be fair.

    I've hung up my Dockers, loafers and Armani sportscoat for good! So, with that in mind, and with a nod to the movie ROGER DODGER and perhaps this is a gift to Mr. Sarah Silverman, Jimmy Kimmel of THE MAN SHOW, I present my "failsafe" methods of cracking the 3rd-date rule, and imposing your own 1st date rule, if you are a middle-aged man.

    (1) [nb: I was lucky to have this dodge available to me -- I understand this is rare]

    I was a 1/3 partner in a thoroughbred racing stable. We had horses at Aqueduct and Belmont, Monmouth (on the Jersey Shore), Philadelphia Park, and Delaware Park, so, if I had a horse I owned running, a day at the races was a perfect first date. My date would have the pleasure of sitting in the Trustees' Room or the Owners', meet the trainer and jockey in the saddling enclosure before the race, and be seen on national television (cable, of course) in the enclosure before the race. If it was a nice afternoon weatherwise, this was just game-set-and-match. An absolute lay-down gin hand. it was up to me if, following our return to the city, sex was to be on the menu.

    (2) This one's available to all men who have some access to a place which presents live boxing. You buy two very good seats for the fight card, as close to ringside as possible. You schedule the date for a steakhouse or nice tavern near the venue. Make sure the alcohol starts flowing soon after sitting down. Now, this is not my favorite part of it because I really don't enjoy alcohol that much. My beverages of choice are Cherry Coke, seltzer, hot chocolate or green tea, but needs must so I'll order a double bourbon and generally speaking my date will order a vodka or gin-based drink. Perhaps, she'll order a glass of wine. I'll buy the bottle instead and as I'm allergic to wine, I don't touch a drop.

    The reason a steakhouse is important if you are dating in a big city is that most women you date are very, very weight and health conscious, so if she decides to forgo the rich appetizers and prime rib, she'll be jammed up with a salad with roquefort dressing and vegetarian option cooked in butter and heavy cream sauces. Either way, she'll have to eat something that violates her diet and the wine, the exercising she did earlier and probable lack of another square meal earlier in the day will make her ravenously hungry. She'll eat. Steak or very fattening vegetables or both. Now she's POT-COMMITTED. By eating this much of this kind of food, she's ALREADY sinned in her mind worse than having sex on the first date in violation of the three-date rule.

    So, off you go to the fights. I know quite a bit about boxing so I can speak knowledgably about it. If you don't know anything go to rec.sport.boxing. You'll be an instant expert. Now, with all of the alcohol and fatty food in her, your date and you take your seats and enjoy the fights. The atmosphere of a fight-night is as testonsterone filled as any event you can imagine. And your date will draw approving glances from many men around where you're sitting. Meanwhile, you've got six FIGHTS to watch. All the noise and the hitting and the anticipation. This is a massive rush for your date. A nightcap afterwards and you may have sex if you like.

    Don't blame me, blame the women's magazines. The author of THE BEAUTY MYTH has it down pat, believe me. I plead guilty to taking advantage of sexist pathologies in the American culture. But musn't worry, America doesn't have Kelso to kick around anymore!

    Have fun. Be safe. Be happy.

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  20. Hi there! Thanks for visiting and thanks for the comment. I think you are so right about "cost-benefit analysis" - it happens on both sides. In the beginning I thought it was fun but eventually mostly hated that process, honestly. As for your strategy - I could see how that set of steps could work, and am glad you've gotten out of the country and the bullshit games.

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  21. Great to be here, Lisa. Your blog is just as cool as Deety made it out to be.

    I've just celebrated my one-year anniversary as an ex-pat and I really couldn't be more pleased I made this decision. I live in Panama, which is, I know, a punchline to a joke in the USA, but in reality it's a first-world country which is a lot more like Western Europe than it is like either the USA or like what Americans think a Latin country is.

    But I don't do the ex-pat thing. I grew up without much money in a mixed-neighborhood in NYC. So, I learned how to speak Spanish when I was a little kid. Thus, I speak without a gringo accent (but with a slightly hard Borinqueno accent) and because I'm darkly complected and short and normally proportioned, I PASS. As what I don't know because this is very much an international crossroads. People usually guess something South American, Southern European or Middle Eastern, but are always perplexed as to where I picked up the Puerto Rican accent!

    The flavor's good down here, socially and politically, and those upper middle-class dating rituals are ABSENT. You're usually getting down to cases pretty quickly but the next day you can get your bagels and lox from El Mercado Super Kosher and LA PRENSA has a fine "crucigrama" (crossword puzzle). Like as not, your companion will be into that stuff, too.

    I'm going to link to your site.

    See ya round campus.

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  22. Great to be here, Lisa. Your blog is just as cool as Deety made it out to be.

    I've just celebrated my one-year anniversary as an ex-pat and I really couldn't be more pleased I made this decision. I live in Panama, which is, I know, a punchline to a joke in the USA, but in reality it's a first-world country which is a lot more like Western Europe than it is like either the USA or like what Americans think a Latin country is.

    But I don't do the ex-pat thing. I grew up without much money in a mixed-neighborhood in NYC. So, I learned how to speak Spanish when I was a little kid. Thus, I speak without a gringo accent (but with a slightly hard Borinqueno accent) and because I'm darkly complected and short and normally proportioned, I PASS. As what I don't know because this is very much an international crossroads. People usually guess something South American, Southern European or Middle Eastern, but are always perplexed as to where I picked up the Puerto Rican accent!

    The flavor's good down here, socially and politically, and those upper middle-class dating rituals are ABSENT. You're usually getting down to cases pretty quickly but the next day you can get your bagels and lox from El Mercado Super Kosher and LA PRENSA has a fine "crucigrama" (crossword puzzle). Like as not, your companion will be into that stuff, too.

    I'm going to link to your site.

    See ya round campus.

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